We do regrettably fear that his daughter's mother is probably another victim somewhere, Carol Schweitzer, of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, said. Diane Kloepfer is one of four biological children Terry Rasmussen fathered in his marriage. And the last story, the one that would tie them all together: the disappearance of a woman named Denise Beaudin from Manchester, New Hampshire. They are: Marlyse Elizabeth Honeychurch, the adult woman whose remains were discovered in 1985, and her two biological daughters, Marie Elizabeth Vaughn and Sarah Lynn McWaters. The case stumped investigators for years: four bodies, found dismembered, skeletonized, wrapped in plastic bags, and stuffed in two 55-gallon steel drums in the Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown, New Hampshire. Their slain bodies were found on November 10th, 1985, in Bear Brook State Park. It can conquer hate. [9] Beaudin was not reported missing at the time as her family believed she left town due to financial reasons. Assistant Attorney General Jeffery Strelzin explained the discovery at a press conference on June 6. Ron Montplaisir, Jr., a former Allenstown, New Hampshire, police officer spoke to 20/20 about the hunter who found the first barrel in 1985. Buried in the cat litter, police found a human foot completely mummified wearing a flip flop. Rasmussen was convicted and sentenced for the murder in 2002 of his then-wife, Eunsoon Jun; he died in prison in 2010. Maricopa County Sheriffs Department, Arizona.A mugshot of Terry Rasmussen from 1973. Most serial killers would never do that; it's the last thing they would do. [9] By 2020, New Hampshire Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeff Strelzin said there was no "evidentiary connection" between Daneault and Rasmussen but that the interest in his case brought renewed attention to Daneault's disappearance. Authorities were able to link him then, using his fingerprints, to the earlier child abandonment case. Just disappeared.. Honeychurch's body and one of the girl's bodieswerefound in November1985 in a barrel tipped on its side inBear Brook State Park in Allenstown, New Hampshire. Want to make sure that NHPR continues creating projects like Bear Brook? And for years, no one could put a name to them, instead referring to the Bear Brook murders.. [8] DNA evidence eventually found that he was not Lisa's father and the case spent years without any significant developments. [29], In June 2017, police released a video of a police interview of Evans in hopes of finding his true identity. They were buried together at a local Allenstown cemetery with a donated gravestone that read: Here lies the mortal remains known only to God of a woman aged 23-33 and a girl child aged 8-10. The Bear Brook murders: Two barrels, four bodies found 15 years apart . Honeychurch had an argument with her mother and left the residence, never contacting her relatives again. He was also confirmed, via DNA, to be the father of a 2-to-4-year-old girl who was one of the Bear Brook victims. Oxygen Insider is your all-access pass to never-before-seen content, free digital evidence kits, and much more! In 2000, 15 years after the first barrel was discovered, Sarahs body was found inside a separate barrel at Bear Brook State Park along with the body of an unknown child. [5] His wife left him and took the children in 1975 after he was arrested for aggravated assault. But what if that story was based on a lie? It was just a situation where, every time we searched, [we] came to a dead end. More than 30 years later, is it possible to get to the truth - and who gets to tell it? Rasmussen's identity was confirmed via DNA from a son from his first marriage. We were playing a game of hide and seek, Morgan told 20/20. I was approached by one of the kids in the group that he had come upon a barrel out in the middle of the woods, which was off the trail. After an argument with her family, she left with Rasmussen and her two daughters, six-year-old Marie Elizabeth Vaughn and one-year-old Sarah Lynn McWaters. [2] All four of the victims were either partially or completely skeletonized; they were believed to have died between 1977 and 1981. Through the years my mother always said, You know, something's not right. ALLENSTOWN "Love conquers all things. Marlyse Honeychurch was last seen around Thanksgiving 1978 with her two daughters, Marie and Sarah. She went with Terry. [2][3][4], In 2017, investigators named Terry Peder Rasmussen as the most likely suspect. First thing we need to do is find out who she is, because without knowing who she is, it's pretty hard to track back and find out where she stayed and who her relatives were and who she associated with, he said. Police believe Terry Rasmussen, a man one expert deemed the worst serial killer, murdered the four women and children found stuffed into barrels in a New Hampshire state park decades ago. This new discovery didnt offer any immediate clues as to who the killer had been, though. How investigators had missed it over a decade prior remains unclear, but the second barrel, like the first, contained the mutilated bodies of two young girls, stored in the same manner. The only evidence against him? Years later, when Gruenheid took on the Eunsoon Jun missing-person case in 2002, she became determined to find out more about Rasmussens supposed daughter Lisa, who had been mentioned in his criminal history, including prior booking records. [35] He married in 1969, had four children, and lived in Phoenix, Arizona, and Redwood City, California. It was just odd that the barrel was out there It was [a] slightly rusted, dark blue barrel. The hunt for a serial killer stretches to California as detectives unravel a tangled web of abuse and murder created by one man with many fake identities. Thanks for your support. He would say, Well she's busy taking care of her mother or She was going to get some therapeutic help, Rose said Vanner told her. When somebody's story keeps changing, it means that they [have] either made something up, can't remember what they told you the first time or that they're lying to you, she added. [6] The divorce was finalized in 1978. an investigative journalist and the author of the book "Chase Darkness With Me." . A conversation with one of Terry Rasmussen's surviving children. In her free time, Heath began scouring the internet for any clues she could find. In 2003, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department opened a case to find Lisa's biological family. Police believe her answer indicates they may have been killed by Rasmussen, too. It just made me angry and curious.. [12][16] The cause of death for these children was also blunt force trauma. His own taped confession. [15] In attendance were members of Honeychurch's family and Rasmussen's daughter from his first marriage. San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, List of serial killers in the United States, List of serial killers by number of victims, "True ID of 'Chameleon' Killer Revealed Terry Peder Rasmussen", "Denver-born suspected serial killer hid remains of woman, 3 girls in barrels", "Authorities piece together a N.H. cold case in an attempt to ID victims", "Officials identify 3 of 4 victims discovered in barrels near Bear Brook State Park", "Case timeline: Killer Terry Peder Rasmussen, also known as 'Bob Evans', "How a Jane Doe child case uncovered a serial killer, identified victims and changed the use of DNA forensics", "AG: Man who killed woman, 3 children in Allenstown also killed missing Manchester woman", "Serial killer Terry Rasmussen's victims, known and unknown", "Serial killer may be behind 1980 disappearance of New Hampshire mom, cops say", "Authorities identify 3 bodies linked to suspected killer", "Timeline of serial killer Terry Rasmussen's terror in New Hampshire, California", "The woman behind the scenes who helped capture the Golden State Killer", "Drifter Bob Evans Eyed as Serial Killer, Tied to N.H. The remains of a young girl, aged 2 to 4, was found in the second barrel with Sarahs remains in 2000. The middle child, identified as Rasmussen's daughter, currently remains unidentified. [39] By October 1978, Sarah's father was seeing another woman and Sarah was presumably in the care of her mother. November 7, 2018 The case that was solved in reverse leaves many questions unanswered. The second child found in the second barrel has not yet been identified although DNA evidence has confirmed thatRasmussen wasthe parent of this unknown victim and that she was not biologically related to Honeychurch or her daughters. She married Sarah's father in September 1974, and the two were separated by the time she was known to be dating Rasmussen. After Jenson disappeared, the Deckers were unable to complete the adoption and Lisa was taken into protective custody. Terry Peder Rasmussens 2002 mugshot after his arrest for the murder of his girlfriend Eunsoon Jun. Inside The Rise And Fall Of Atlantic City, Retired Kansas City Detective Roger Golubski Charged With Sex-Trafficking Teenage Girls In The 1990s, What Stephen Hawking Thinks Threatens Humankind The Most, 27 Raw Images Of When Punk Ruled New York, Join The All That's Interesting Weekly Dispatch. In 1985, there was a grim discovery made in Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown, New Hampshire: Two decomposing bodies found in a barrel. But there was no doubt the killings had been the handiwork of the same person. Anyone who is aware of a missing child or a missing child and her mother from the late 1970s to early 1980s can call New Hampshire State Police at 603-271-2663 or email coldcaseunit@dos.nh.gov.. He then took on the alias Gordon Jenson and abandoned the child at an RV park in Scotts Valley, California, in 1986. For more on the case, visit bearbrookpodcast.com. "The Bear Brook case was the . From the creators of the hit podcast Bear Brook comes A True Crime Story. Apparently, Honeychurch had been with Rasmussen the last time she was seen. [14] Denise Daneault, a 25-year-old woman who lived two blocks from the Rahn residence, went missing from a bar in June 1980. The Bear Brook murders (also referred to as the Allenstown Four) are female American murder victims, two discovered in 1985 and two in 2000, at Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown, New Hampshire, United States. The Bear Brook murders (also referred to as the Allenstown Four) are female American murder victims, two discovered in 1985 and two in 2000, at Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown, New Hampshire, United States. On Nov. 10, 1985, a hunter trekking through Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown, New Hampshire came across a large, industrial steel drum. A second search was conducted in May 2018. Lisa was born Dawn Beaudin in 1981, Armand Beaudin said. Two investigators work parallel leads, and authorities call a press conference. Jun disappeared from Richmond, California, in June 2002, approximately two years after Vanner met her family and friends. One of the hunters looked inside the open barrel and saw a skull. [5], The guilty plea came as a surprise to the court; Contra Costa County homicide detective Roxane Gruenheid has stated that she thinks he pleaded guilty after overhearing her say that she was going to request a paternity test for Lisa. [32], Authorities said in 2018 that the Bear Brook woman was not Beaudin. Want to make sure that NHPR continues creating projects like Bear Brook? The victims were officially named in June 2019. Sarah, her half-sister Marie and their mother, Honeychurch, were unknown persons until authorities announced their identities at a press conference on June 6, 2019. Jesse Morgan, who grew up in a small trailer park surrounded by Bear Brook, was 11 when he and his friends stumbled upon the first barrel. The bones of a foot . I don't think they're ever going to find her, Denise Beaudins father Armand Beaudin said. Together we have been able to uncover the identity of the Allenstown killer, a murderer who tried to erase his victims and hide in the process, tried to hide who he was and what he did, but ultimately he wasnt successful, Strelzin said, according to The Washington Post. By 2017, Bob Evans was dead, and investigators believed he had killed Denise Beaudin after they left New Hampshire. [10] Jun disappeared in June 2002 and her body was found buried in cat litter in their home after having died from blunt force trauma to the head. There could be a variety of women out there who could be potential victims.. [2] All four of the victims were either partially or completely skeletonized; they were believed to have died between 1977 and 1981. [5] In 1989, he received a three-year prison sentence for child abandonment. Homicide", "Four Unidentified Allenstown Homicide Victims", "Allenstown, NH murder victims identified after nearly 40 years", "New rendering released for unidentified girl found in barrel in Allenstown", Original digital reconstruction of middle child, "3 bodies hidden in barrels remained unidentified for decades. [17] At that time, a tipster speculated that she could have been the "Elizabeth Evans" that had been listed as Rasmussen's wife during his time in Manchester. For any tips concerning Terry Rasmussen and any unknown victims, please contact please contact Deputy Peter Headley with San Bernardino County Sheriffs Department at pheadley@sbcsd.org or the New Hampshire State Police Cold Case Unit (603)223-3648, ColdCaseUnit@dos.nh.gov, 24/7 coverage of breaking news and live events. June 7, 2019 A clue is found buried on an internet message board. Heath submitted her tip to authorities in October 2018. Jenson said after those two weeks, the Deckers could arrange for their daughter to adopt Lisa, police said. In 1985 and then again in 2000, police discovered the dismembered. In 1981, Denise Beaudin went missing shortly after Thanksgiving with her 6-month-old daughter and her boyfriend, Rasmussen, who she knew as Robert T. Evans, according to the New Hampshire Department of Justice. [12][6], Rasmussen died, aged 67, while imprisoned at High Desert State Prison[5] on December 28, 2010. Curiously, against the advice of his attorneys, Vanner pleaded guilty to the murder during his trial. The New Hampshire Attorney General's office revealed that three of the victims in what became widely known as the "Bear Brook Murders" are Marlyse Elizabeth Honeychurch and her two daughters,. According to investigators, the reason that it took so long for the second drum to be recovered is that it was located outside the proximity of the initial crime scene. After countless hours of research, genetic genealogist Rae-Venter found Armand Beaudin, Lisas maternal grandfather. We have never stopped looking, he said. In 1989, Jenson, later identified as Rasmussen, was arrested for child abandonment and was subsequently sentenced to three years in prison. Get an all-access pass to never-before-seen content, free digital evidence kits, and much more! The only evidence against him? One of the victims had been his daughter. This is somebody who forms relationships and clearly is having social attachments. Their slain bodies were found on November 10th, 1985, in Bear Brook State Park. Three of the victims would be identified, however, two years later, thanks to the obsessive amateur sleuthing of Rebekah Heath and Barbara Rae-Venter. In 2017, using genetic genealogy techniques, investigators were finally able to name their man: Terry Rasmussen, an inmate who had died seven years earlier, in 2010, while serving a sentence for the murder of his then-girlfriend, Eunsoon Jun. Replies were filled with other people who also believed they were related to Sarah one member of a family of three who had gone missing sometime in the late 1970s. [Its because] there's still one victim out there, former Detective Cody said. Rebekah Becky Heath, the researcher and libararian who obsessively worked to discover Rasmussens victims identities. [28] Beaudin disappeared from Manchester, New Hampshire, along with her young daughter and then-boyfriend Robert "Bob" Evans. November 15, 2018 This is the first in an unknown number of short updates to the story of the Bear Brook murders that we'll be producing to let listeners know about any breaking news in the case. There were little fingerprint cards, with these little tiny little hands, and had their little footprints on the back of them and little tiny fingerprints, Gruenheid said. She said that she did but "they died eating grass mushrooms when they were out camping". A surprising admission leads to a new break in the case. Rasmussen was born on December 23, 1943,[1] in Denver, Colorado. [20], In January 2017, it was announced that Denise Beaudin, who had been missing since 1981, was connected to the murders. Investigators said they finally got a break in 2017, when a new forensic technique known as genetic genealogy pinpointed Rasmussen as the likely culprit. 07-11-2018. The scavengers actually walked out in the middle [of the canal], because it was just mud cut the rope and opened it up here and that's when they saw what they thought was a human being inside, Huber told 20/20.. Lisa sent a sample of her DNA to an ancestry website and learned her mothers name: Denise Beaudin. This isn't the big news we're hoping to break - stay subscribed for another full episode of Bear Brook that we hope to bring you soon. Roxane Gruenheid was a homicide detective at the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Office. Rebekah Heath, a research librarian who said shed become obsessed with the case, helped identify the woman and the two children through her own sleuthing. Honeychurch was last seen in La Puente, California, on Thanksgiving day that year. He was very, very white, very pale, Montplaisir told 20/20. He said to me, There's a barrel up in the woods, and I think there's some bones in there.. Their hard work, along with that of a dogged researcher, ultimately unraveled a long trail of missing and murdered women and children all leading back, police say, to a serial killer. She also may have suffered from anemia. Four bodies-one woman, and three little girls-found in two barrels years apart. I don't think they're ever going to find her, Beaudins father, Armand Beaudin, said. He had settled in nearby Manchester, New Hampshire, under the alias "Bob Evans" in the late 1970s. Decades later, investigators discovered that Denise Beaudin was the mother of the child known as Lisa, a little girl Rasmussen claimed in the 1980s was his daughter, which DNA tests later confirmed wasnt true. Denise Beaudin has never been located. Jesse Morgan, who grew up in a small trailer park surrounded by Bear Brook, was 11 when he and his friends stumbled upon the barrel. Although this moment is bittersweet, they had their names back on this day. In November 2002, he was arrested for Juns murder and in 2003, he was sentenced to prison for 15 years to life after he pled guilty to the crime. The bodies were eventually buried in a nearby cemetery with a tombstone that read: Here lies the mortal remains known only to God of a woman aged 23-33 and a girl child aged 8-10. [3][4] Rasmussen enlisted in the United States Navy in 1961 and served until he was discharged in 1967. [5][3] A woman named "Elizabeth Evans" was listed as his wife during his time in New Hampshire; this woman has never been identified. Police believe Honeychurch fled to New Hampshire with Rasmussen, who at that point had begun using the name "Bob Evans." Rasmussen has been linked to five horrific murders and authorities fear there are more. After reading about the long journey to identify the Chameleon Killers victims, read about the Green River Killer, Gary Ridgway. Her hair was wavy and light brown; she had no dental fillings. [3] Moon began covering the cold case in 2015, and later started the podcast. Timelines come together. THE CHAMELEON KILLER 'Bear Brook Murders' Starcasm Staff September 5, 2021 The Chameleon Killer, True Crime For 30 years the killer of bodies found in barrels near Bear Brook State Park,. Rasmussen is the suspected perpetrator of the Bear Brook murders. Click here to donate $20. He later abandoned that child, whom he had pretended to father and called Lisa, in a trailer park. When Lisa was taken into protective custody in 1986, police asked her if she had any siblings. We have a few unidentified remains that we are trying to identify in different parts of the country that we think have all of his earmarks, Jensen told Gomulka. Honeychurchs youngest daughter, Sarah, was laid to rest in Connecticut, near her fathers family. Similar posts also aided in the identifications of the victims. [6] He was arrested in Cypress, California, in 1985 under the name Curtis Kimball for charges of driving under the influence and endangering the welfare of a child but failed to appear in court. Her answer led police to believe that Rasmussen killed them too. A search leads authorities to his basement. Sarah is believed to have been 2 to 3 years old at the time she was killed, according to authorities. This is the twisted story of the Bear Brook Murders. I stood there for just a few seconds There was no odor. An early morning drug deal in a hotel bathroom ends in tragedy. The refrigerator had been dumped in a canal in San Joaquin County, California. Police later determined the female adult and child, unidentified at the time, had died of blunt force trauma to their heads. For more on the case and to see a timeline of Sharon's last day, visit bearbrookpodcast.com. Renee Rose spoke to "20/20" about her friend Eunsoon Jun. New Hampshire State Attorney's Office, Sarah Lynn McWaters, Marlyse Elizabeth Honeychurch and Marie Elizabeth Vaughn. A fourth victim in the . Link your TV provider to stream full episodes and live TV. She was born in Hawaiian Gardens, California, when her father was in the Marines. She had symptoms of pneumonia, a crooked front tooth and a diastema (space between her top teeth), two earrings in each ear, and was between 4ft 3in (1.30m) and 4ft 6in (1.37m) tall. [4] The identities of the middle child, who Rasmussen fathered, and her mother remain unknown. Terry Peder Rasmussen (December 23, 1943 December 28, 2010) was an American serial killer. Honeychurch was last seen at her mothers house in La Puente, California, around Thanksgiving in 1978. Want to make sure that NHPR continues creating projects like Bear Brook? In 1981, Denise Beaudin went missing shortly after Thanksgiving with her 6-month-old daughter and her boyfriend, Rasmussen, whom she had known as Robert T. Evans, according to the New Hampshire Department of Justice. Public DomainTerry Peder Rasmussens 2002 mugshot after his arrest for the murder of his girlfriend Eunsoon Jun. We know what he was, we know what he did and now we know who his victims were.. At least ten possible identities were ruled out. [1] [2] The podcast is hosted by Jason Moon and was released through New Hampshire Public Radio. Rasmussen, who had used several other aliases throughout his life,was named as a suspect in 2017. About a year later, Heath, who lives in Connecticut, was listening to a New Hampshire Public Radio podcast about the Bear Brook murders when information about the victims reminded her again of the . She had brought her two daughters and a man she identified as Rasmussen to hermothers house in La Puente, California. Curiously, the first drum was way back in 1985 and the second wasnt discovered until 2000. There's always that hope, but nothing's definite.. May their souls find peace in Gods loving care. It was reported that he was known to travel with women and children. From the creators of the hit podcast Bear Brook comes A True Crime Story. Upon Rasmussen's release from prison, according to the State of California Dept. Yet, they still had no clue who the victims were. [4][14] The two were buried in an Allenstown cemetery with a tombstone that read: "Here lies the mortal remains known only to God of a woman aged 23-33 and a girl child aged 8-10. Rose ultimately went to the Contra Costa County Sheriff, where Roxane Gruenheid was a homicide detective. Then, 15 years later on May 9, 2000, a second 55-gallon drum was discovered in the same area. Starring Terry P Rasmussen Genres Unscripted Subtitles None available When I got up in the morning, I pulled my shades back, there was clouds and a beautiful blue sky, and there was seagulls circling in the sky, they were beautiful. Thanks for your support. Evans was listed as married to a woman named Elizabeth, according to documents from 1980. She said that she did, but they died from eating grass mushrooms when they were out camping, Deputy Headley said. Click here to donate $20. Now we need to identify and try to find all of his victims.. bodies found. In 2003, when the San Bernardino Sheriffs Department opened a new case aimed at finding Lisas biological family, she was approximately 22 years old. She had an overbite, which was probably noticeable. [10][25] In 2015, the woman was identified as the mother of the two girls. Beaudin's daughter was abducted by Rasmussen and taken to California, where he raised her under the pseudonym "Gordon Jensen". [15], The fourth victim's identity is not yet known, but investigators stated that through advanced DNA testing they could confirm the child was Rasmussen's. Huber says the investigation is stalled because she is still unidentified. [29], Evans died in prison in December 2010. They can rest in peace. Donate $20 today. In November 2015, the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children released a third set of reconstructions of the four victims at a news conference at the New Hampshire State Attorney General's office. My father's been outta my life since I was, like, 6 or 7, she said. MANCHESTER, N.H. The search for the name of the remaining unidentified murder victim found in a barrel in Allenstown is leading authorities to Mississippi. This is the twisted story of the Bear Brook Murders. This isn't the big news we're hoping to break - stay subscribed for another full episode of Bear Brook that we hope to bring you soon. Heath continued researching, messaging some of the family members who had been around at the time when another name came up: Terry Rasmussen. It's just kind of sitting out in the woods., The brother that found the barrel went over to it and tried to lift the top of the barrel and when he did that, we were hit with a smell that was absolutely putrid. In the early 1980s, a man who said his name was Gordon Jenson was living in a trailer park in California, with a little girl he called Lisa, who police say was about 4 or 5 years old at the time. [5] Throughout 1980, he was arrested in Manchester three times for writing a bad check, theft, and diverting electric current. [8], San Joaquin County, California Assistant Sheriff John Huber speculated that Rasmussen may have been responsible for killing Amanda Schumann Deza, In 1995, her body was discovered by scavengers inside of a refrigerator which had been dumped in a canal. But only 19-year-old Jason Carroll was convicted. [36] The senior Rasmussen, known as the Chameleon killer, is believed to have used "at least five different aliases in a decades-long run of crimes across the country, including at least five homicides, and likely more. Esther Elliott, eight, (left) dressed as . Authorities on Thursday revealed that they had identified three of the four victims in the chilling cold case known as the Bear Brook murders . A paternity test comparing Rasmussens blood from prison and a sample police had from 5-year-old Lisa showed Rasmussen was not her father. Two brothers were hunting in Bear Brook State Park on the 10th of November 1985. This isn't the big news we're hoping to break - stay subscribed for another full episode of Bear Brook that we hope to bring you soon. [10] These bodies were also in a metal 55-gallon drum, and police believe that all four murders occurred at roughly the same time, despite investigators inexplicably missing the second drum in 1985. She left the home after a trivial argument with her mother and was never seen alive again. In 1985 two bodies were discovered in a barrel in the Bear Brook State Park. Due to his use of many aliases, most notably "Bob Evans", Rasmussen is known as "The Chameleon Killer". Huber said the body of a woman was found in a state of advanced decomposition and police couldnt discern the womans facial features. Turn on desktop notifications for breaking stories about interest? She had blunt force trauma to the head, and then she was put in a container and the container was tied off and he dumped it, he said. Terry Rasmussen poses as "Curtis Kimball" in an arrest photo from 1990. He was linked to the 1981 disappearance of a woman in New Hampshire that he was thought to be dating and was serving time for the murder of his wife in California when he died of natural causes in . That's the only reason.. He was just a really, really bad man, one of the worst, Jensen said. Sign up forOxygen Insiderfor all the best true crime content. Then, learn about Ivan Milat, Australias most violent serial killer. A sister and two nieces.. Josh is charged under the federal death resulting law a new and growing strategy for prosecutors and faces a sentence of two decades or longer. 1954) was the mother of Marie Elizabeth Vaughn (b. Rasmussen killed at least six people in a series of crimes that spanned decades and stretched across the continental United States. Now, the only question that remains is, who was the middle child, Terry Rasmussens daughter and fourth victim?
